I love you Curadh. I love you, Baehr. This is episode 83 of the Baehr and Curadh podcast
We're going to talk about the arts. The government shouldn't grant money to museums and art galleries. Do you agree?
I don't see why not. I think they I mean they you, donate money to a lot of other things that I didn't think are pointless
But sometimes you know too much government's meddling in people's businesses, I don't know
What do you think I mean you think I remember going to the Kansas City Art Museum and
The docent there was pointing out all of these paintings from
Kings and Queens and popes and whatever and I asked the docent
Well, there's lots of pictures of all this royalty and whatever, but there's not you, very many pictures of just ordinary common people
And she said artists had to have a patron art on its own
They didn't really sell art back then and even if they did
Art wasn't a big commodity until after the artists died
So, in order for an artist to survive they had to have a patron a rich person who could support them and
You know give them a place to live and food to eat and whatever and return they would paint pictures
Paintings of their family and whatever the whatever the patron wanted
So, there weren't a whole lot of commissions for ordinary people
Okay, and ordinary people the only place that they saw art was in the church
Mm-hmm. They didn't they didn't have art in their homes. Yeah, so
I think it's important to have art accessible to people
People who can't otherwise afford it. Yeah, no, I agree with you because you can't you know, that's why you need museums
I would say because you know other than that you could be stuck to the ranch or the see a leaf or anything. Yeah
So, there's a whole lot of art out there
That's in private collections. It won't never be seen by anybody. Oh, yeah
There's most probably most of it is out there like that
You know, I mean you have these multi-millionaire and billionaire art collectors
You know, I mean how many times do you see that on the news where they're like of this ancient this piece of artwork was discovered in such and such because
It's been missing forever and it was a private collector at it her
So, and then you see a lot of these
Auctions from these auction houses where these people will buy these pieces of art and
Wasn't it Banksy that did one where it was a or was some sort of artist where
Basically, it was an auction house and the guy bought it and it timed out or something like that where
Okay, I remember that case
Banksy did do an art piece and it was commissioned and
Banksy, I don't nobody knows if Banksy is a man or a woman
Not that it matters, but Banksy said this is temporary art
Just were like the graffiti
so
when
When the piece was auctioned and were somebody won, I don't know who
Somebody got the art. There was a shredder that was part of the frame of the artwork and as soon as the
Bidding was done and it was ready to get shredded itself
So awesome
Sorry, that's terrible, but it is awesome. You know, I mean kind of says a lot about society though
I think and I know I mean it'd be nice to be that rich where you can actually, you know
I mean, but I think artists for the people so it needs to be shared. It should be so I guess
I guess we're both for money being granted by the government then the government isn't and in the business of supporting artists
Like they used to there have been way too many
Politicians who've tried to make a career out of saying that the government is wasting money supporting artists
Yeah, so a lot of that support comes from private funds
Private funds. Yeah, but there are still some governments are down there. Okay. The state should not subsidize artists
And I'm kind of goes back to what we're just talking about now in this case
I guess we're talking about artists directly and not using them. Yeah, that's hard to say
You know because it's so much already comes down to personal choice and what you think is art
Which what's good art? What's bad art? So having the government to their you know, just take government tell you
We're spending your tax dollars on this. What about like public TV? That's sure to them now
The corporation for public broadcasting the group that does the fundraising for that
I think something like 80% of it is not government funds
It's private their fund donations, but there is some government and when a politician sees that the government is spending money
The politician thinks that they should have the to say on whether we get spent or not
Okay, I don't know. I mean, I think I don't think it should be
I don't think the government should subsidize money for specific artists because here's to say who gets money
Who doesn't? Who gets to say which museums get money in which don't? Yeah, but museums have a collection of art artists
Do their own art? You're they're your comparing kind of apples the oranges. I mean a museum has a gallery of different artists
Whereas and oftentimes artists will donate their art to a museum
Whereas if you subsidize money for a particular artist, you're getting just that artist's work
See, see what I'm saying. We were at the art museum yesterday
There was an artist. What was his name? No, I knew you were going to say that. Something William Johnson
He, I don't know if he was commissioned to do the biddy did paintings of all kinds of
Freedom political and historical figures
I would suspect that some of that was government funded
I don't know from what I've read it didn't really say. I mean he had to make a living somehow
Yeah, but I don't know. I really don't know it didn't say. I didn't know the government was into doing that
Oh, yeah, especially during the depressions of the WPA funded all kinds of artists to do all kinds of art
Really? Oh, over by North High is a minus a park and there's a bridge there that has sort of an art deco stuff on the bridge
And I think the school does too and I believe all of that was funded by WPA
Oh, depression. Hmm. I know a bridge you're talking about. I used to live over there
A lot of folk art and folk artists weren't ever going to make enough money to support themselves
They probably would have died out if it wasn't for WPA
Huh, of course we don't have that anymore
But I think it's a good thing
Yeah, it's the same. I mean there's so many artists out there that are really good that are starving artists
You know what I mean? They can't make them what they do with his hands and just kind of
Or people still patron there are still patrons of the art
Yeah
I would, I don't know if I would want to guess what percentage of
Money is patrons and what part is artist, actual sales
Yeah, yeah, I'm not sure. It's still really interesting though. It's uh, but I mean, you know like we go to our museum
But I know one of the main reasons we go is that it's free
Yeah, well we go as often if it costs money. Well, we go it off it costs money
Well kind of like the zoo we would probably get a membership where we could go whenever we want
Yeah, that's true. You can't really consider the zoo to be art. I don't think but I don't know
You know a rear a weird roundabout way I suppose it is
Hmm. Yeah. All right. Modern art isn't really art. I hold hardily disagree with it
You do? Yeah. Art subjective. When you consider art is something that someone else might not consider art
Well, I don't think you get to decide what is art and what isn't art. The artist does
Yeah, and if you like it, you like it if you don't you don't so you know, I mean, there's probably artists that were
Back in the day that were shunned for what they did and now you know now they're loved
Well, when you see a painting that has some purple polka dots or uh, it's a bunch of orange squares
You know, it is a canvas with something on it, but it's not a painting of it's not a landscape
It's not somebody's portrait wherever it's just polka dots just shapes
Um, I can see why people would say that's not art. Yeah, but because it's like I said art subjective
You might not think it's art, but someone else does it doesn't speak to you. So, you don't think it's art
Doesn't mean it's not art. You know, I mean, that's your opinion. You might not like it, but it still doesn't discount it
It's just like I said, it's just really subjective. I think whoever came up with this statement is
Really thinks that art is just landscapes and portrait So, Yeah. Yeah. All right films are never as good as the original books
Well, that's a different kind of art very different kind of art in most cases books follow in detail
An event or an experience not only
Giving the dialogue, but also description and how the characters are feeling and everything you can't convey that in film
Well, and it also comes down to the way they read or read it. They pictured her in her own mind. Uh-huh
You know the way characters names are pronounced, you know
There's a there's a joke that a Harry Potter books one of the character's name is Hermione. Well, when he read the books
He thought her name was her Well, my own or honey her honey or something like that
So, when after reading all the books where that was her name then going to see the movies
He was flabbergasted the any kind of it was called him off-guarder first
It's just it's and then like you know; I've read plenty of books where I
Picture this way in my mind and then it comes out of the movie. I'm like. Oh, that's a different way of looking at it
You know what I mean? So, it's it has to do with you and it's difficult to get all the nuances of a of a novel
Into a movie. I mean they aren't starting to do two- or three-hour movies and I can't you can't handle that
Well, the Harry Potter book movies for like three hours long and there's seven of them
No, if it wasn't for a home video, I don't think that that would and you still can't get you to watch the Harry Potter movies
No, probably not, no
But in a theater, there's no way I'm gonna go to a two- or three-hour movie. I cannot go that long
He won't go to an hour and a half
I don't think he would go to a half hour show to movie theater, so I'd give him a pomato mall long time ago
I would prefer to watch it on my big screen when I can press pause at each time I want
Well, don't you think it takes away from it though if you go see something in a theater or you just don't care that much
Comedy is often better in a group experience. Yeah
But other films
You just can't compare books to movies
Yeah, it's a little different is it completely different source and oftentimes
for the so that it doesn't end up being a five-hour movie they'll drop entire characters from a film
And then we're you know; I mean we're just parts like you like you said they don't think there's that important and they can't put by the wayside
Most directors are constantly thinking does this add to the to the story if it doesn't add to the story, it gets cut
Yeah, and then I know there's certain parts of books that I've read and I'm like that's part of my favorite part of the book
And then I watch the movie and I'm like what the hell you can put me cut that out. Hmm. So, my absolute favorite book is Johnson Livingston Seagull
And it was made into a movie
And in the book Jonathan thinks to himself a lot
And you know sets things to the other goals and whatever if so, they couldn't have done voiceovers in that movie
It would just be an hour and a half of Seagull's flying around
Yeah, you can see you can go you have to adapt to the medium. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, the so thoughts that he have are
Quite profound and that's has why it's such a good book
It didn't translate very well into a movie. I keep falling asleep when I watch the movie. I've never read the book or the movie
Okie dokie. We should stop giving prizes for the art. No, I disagreeing. I think they should be awarded
It's because then if you see through that then you
Self-given prizes away for poetry, writing, visual, sound
I mean all of those as you stop giving prizes music. I'm thinking more how
commercialized the Grammy Awards the Country Music Awards
It is art. You're talking about art
But it's so commercialized the only artists who are going to be up for a Grammy are the ones that the music industry wants to promote
Oh, yeah, so they can make more money. It's been like that for years. So, awards aren't really
About it's not about appreciating the artists so much anymore. It is promoting the industry. Yeah
I mean you do see every once in a while, though. Now like I think it was a year or two ago. Bonnie Ray won something for a song
And everyone got their panties in a bunch about it because it wasn't a top 50 hit
But it was a very good song and people were just flabbergasted that she won because she probably deserved it more than
That the every once in a while, chart opera. So, I mean it meant exactly what awards are supposed to be supposed to be
So, I mean, but you know, you do still get the awards too where it might not be the album of the year
But it's you know; it feels like there's some artists will come on TV and they're like five-time Grammy award winner
And I'm like, I don't even know who that is
But it's for folk or you know, I mean it's known; it's still there for the smaller know; quote unquote people
So, they just don't get televised and get the big hoopla battle like everybody out true
I think the Emmys have hundreds of categories, and most of them don't ever get there on the show
Yeah, well people were sheep they're just gonna watch what you know, I mean, it's like the Oscars
There's a ton of Oscars out there, but they never make it on the actual show
But you know, you have like the cinematographer, you know, I mean they So, show the cinematographer
Best film and stuff like that, but there's a ton of awards that are one that are just never shown anymore and
I don't know um, it's sort of like a participation trophy. Yeah
Um, there are legitimate reasons for doing things like that
When I was younger my mother and my sister and I would
Arrange flowers and put them in flower competitions and in every one of those they had a division
For like 12 and under and there are
Thousands of different categories for flower arrangements
And what they would do is they would they would divide up all of the entries for those kids and
Spread them out so that every So, entry got either a first second or third
Depending they So, would switch them in the categories to make sure that they all got an award
Okay, which I don't know and that's a whole another debate right there
But you're not really appreciating the So, the art at that point. No, but you are I guess you're encouraging children
You know, it's I'm not I'm not for participation trophies. I mean, but I'm also a competitor
I mean made me want to win more when I didn't win if I didn't get a medal
You know, I mean it made me strive to work harder to get that medal
Well, it would seem to me when you have recognition like that all that would do would be
Make one person or one team very happy and piss off all the rest of them. Yeah
Well, when it's just one gold medal or well, everybody knows second place is just the first loser
Yeah, third place is the second loser
I mean the first medal that I ever won was a bronze medal and it meant a lot to me
You know, I mean we were third best, but we beat gosh, I think there was 20 total boats in that category
So, we were third out of 20 boats. So, 17 teams went home pissed So, Yeah, but we beat them
No, it was fair and square and you know, I mean it's not a long same playing field, so
But that's a whole another discussion leading you into sports is not art. I don't care what anybody says
No, no, no
There's no need to read the book if you can just watch the film. No
And like we said earlier book brings a different feel to it than a movie. It's a whole different field of art
Yeah, and I mean it's and then like you're reading a book also brings into your own
imagination and the experiences you're having when you read it
Yeah, when you're in love and you read a love story it's totally different than when you're not in love. Yeah
Yeah, so I've a wholeheartedly disagreed with that unless you So, know, you have an assignment
What about audiobooks? I don't have time to read a book anymore. I just don't have I'd have too many projects that I have to do
But when so, I'm driving or showering whatever I'll listen to an audiobook
I guess you're still getting the gist of it. Well, you're getting every bit of the repeated word
Yeah, I mean it takes up much longer than reading. Yeah, um, I think that's fine than you
Yeah, and people know that a film just that doesn't cover everything in a story
So, if you you're interested in that story and you want to know more you can read the book
Now what do you say if you read cliff notes? That's worse than watching the film
I agree and I think it's funny when people actually do that because you don't really get the gist of the book
And I just think you're short yourself
Yeah, and you're getting a summarized answer
I'm thinking of there are times when people talk about a famous novel like everybody should have read that and I have it
And I'll look it up on Wikipedia and it'll give me a pretty good synopsis
I don't think I've ever gone and bought a book because I read about it on Wikipedia
But in these fast-paced days, I guess it's better than not doing anything and just being ignorant of the story
Hmm. Yeah, I guess that's one way of looking at it. Yeah
Sometimes people and some people just don't like to read or like you said you know, just don't have time
Mm-hmm. So, I can't remember the last time I read a book
I mean you probably could but you mean you're constantly reading all your feeds on your computer. Yes
So, is he worth it? If there are little spoonsful of information, you can stop saying that and read a book
But I know you prefer to do that. So, I like to keep up on what's going on. Yeah, so
Okay, we shouldn't teach art in music in schools. We definitely should teach art and music in school
I believe something. I think that's up for debate. Oh
There So, are plenty of people who say oh and we shouldn't have civics either
Yeah, we should only teach kids survival skills to get by in the world
how to how to make a list to do a project or how to cook or
How to balance a checkbook, although nobody balances a checkbook anymore
And you know, so they feel that art and music is just a waste of time that they're So, learning stuff that they'll never use
Yeah, I will hardly disagree with that
And yeah, I don't think there's much debate on that. I mean between us. Yeah, art and music should not be taught in schools
Except as an optional extra-curricular activity. Um, I know because then you'd have parents out there
We believe what we're just talking about where no, you're not going to take heart or you're not going to take this because it's you won't need it
And I think you're just hindering your kids if you tell them they can't do that. Yeah, try to tell them they can't have sports unless it's
An extracurricular activity. Yeah, nobody's going
Well, I mean sports are actually curricular activities. You sign up for those. They're not part of school
I mean if they say you can't have gym class anymore
Oh, yeah, yeah
A well-rounded person should experience everything I guess
And if you don't like it, you don't like it. You'll find out you want to do something else. Mm-hmm
So, like for instance calculus. Did you take calculus? No
But how about algebra? Did you ever use anything you learned to know see I use it every day in my programming job
Oh, yeah, yeah, so the representation of things is what programming is
I don't know that I really appreciate that when I was in school taking algebra and calculus. Yeah, yeah
It's kind of funny how you look back on things. I think it's 2020, you know things like I mean
I wish that I took it more seriously. I wish that I still had my textbooks from civics class the
the history classes and so, stuff
But especially civics because when we talk about, you know how did the supreme court get to this point?
I mean we learned about stuff like that. The Teapot Dome scandal when things like that
If what's that saying if you don't learn from history, you're doomed to repeat it. Yeah, yeah, so
uh
Kids need to learn all that stuff too. Yeah, I agree
They won't necessarily think it's necessary and their parents probably don't either but in the end
It's a better society when people are informed. Yeah, I agree 100% now. We have film. There's no point in theater
Well, I disagree with that. I disagree with that completely too. It's a different kind of art form different kind of medium. Well
Um, also the um the history, ambiance of it is different. Oh, yeah
100%. I would say that in most cases people who are seeing a play in a theater probably already know the story
They're history, not going to learn you know something new from it. What they're enjoying is the
um the actors
Reactor's interpretation of the character. Mm-hmm. I mean everybody knows what happened in um
In early America, but people go to see Hamilton just to see how it was performed. Oh, yeah, yeah
Well, you know, it's like even something you would say about everyone knows how far I'm even joy yet and but people still don't see that
You know what I mean?
And reading like reading a play is much more difficult
What do you mean? What? Why is it more difficult? It's in a set of novels. They're just it's because it's
Well mainly because all you're hearing is all you're reading is the dialogue. Yeah, there's usually not much description
Yeah, but no, I don't I think theater and definitely isn't that's necessity
Not I mean none of this stuff is in necessity, but I don't think it went the last time you went to a play. Oh, God
It's been years me too. I would love to go
I would you know mean, but I just it's one of those artists like that of mine type of things
But I see these things coming on you know for century two here in town and their times where I'm like oh, I think that would be fun
But I can't get you to go watch a movie but I don't think I could talk you into going to theater. Mm-hmm
So, would you actually go to a theater? I have in college my college roommate was a lesbian
Okay, would you go to a play with me?
Um, yeah, I guess if you didn't cost too much. No, okay. It's just something to keep in mind in the future that we can do together
I mean, I've even gone to a hockey game. So yeah, I would go to a play before we go to another hockey game
I thought you liked the hockey game. It was okay
Yeah, especially since we got to sit in the back and nobody threw popcorn at us or
Yeah, most sense you're crowded. So, I'd like to do that again. Go away. Go away
Okay
All right
There should be no censorship of the arts. Mm-hmm. But think of the children. Yeah, but much
This is hard to say. I mean, I don't know. I don't think this should be
I mean, but who's to say what I think is art and what other person is think is art? But I might find
offensive someone else might not. Mm-hmm, you know, the million moms, you know, it's always but think of the children. Well, um
The people who should be censoring children are their parents? Exactly. You come down to not some school board. Yeah
Now of course some art is definitely meant to
pander to a prevalent interest. Mm-hmm, but um the Supreme Court made a pretty good definition of pornography and so we can define it and we can keep it
out of side of
Children, okay, so I'm not really talking about pornography, but well for instance lately a lot of school boards have
the positions have been taken over by various Christian groups and
The school board says we don't want any talk about gay people
We want to we don't want children to be exposed to the concept that gay people even exist. Yeah, don't say gay and
Yeah, that's ridiculous. So, yeah, so it should be the parents who make the decision. Yeah, we're 100%
Yeah, you know me that would be like my niece and nephews not it's not
Not knowing my situation or knowing that I exist because I'm gay. You know what I mean? That's just absolutely acid on in my opinion
Or you know I mean that the mean you were married and that you know they you know they have two uncles, so
But yeah, like you said it should come down to the parents. It shouldn't come down to society. They're censoring and even
When parents are involved, it should be for just their own children. It shouldn't be
There shouldn't be one parent somewhere who stops an entire book series because there's even involved, the majority of them like you know say it's at a school
And 60% of the parents that don't agree with the literature or the art that's being taught. So, they're all out. No
You know what I mean? I don't know. It's so if he came down to go and 60% of them said no
The other 40% would be out
No, it should basically I'm agreeing with you that it comes down to individual parents' parent in your house. Yeah
If parents don't like the way their kids are being taught in schools and take them out. Yeah, I'm school. No
Although that's really bad for the kids. No
Because all you're doing is perpetuating
Hey, no, you could be parental stereotypes. Yeah. Well, I mean it really depends. I mean some
Some homeschool kids could probably be pretty good. It really depends upon the parent but most people who in school have their own ideology
Yeah, and they're probably not really qualified to be teachers. No, not at all
Okay, Disney films provide bad role models for children definitely you think so almost all Disney movies have some
Truly evil character. Yeah, but they also have some truly really good characters in them too. So
Gee, maybe this is not a black and white issue. Yeah, well none of this is really a black and white issue. I mean
You mean you can read into anything a lot of people are upset that Disney movies now mentioned gay people
No, that's part of the world today
So actually, it was always part of the world. Yeah, it's just more in the forefront
So, you're being tongue-in-cheek when you say okay, that's not the thing. No, I think no
Well, on So, the face of it that statement is true Disney films provide bad role models for children, but you can learn
Um, how's that saying go? Um, I'm not totally useless. I can always be used as a bad example
Yeah, I mean there's busy movies that I hold near and dear to my heart growing up
You know, I mean that I still love this day. Lion King. I love it. You know, I mean
And it had just a terribly evil character you scar who killed its father killed its father
Yeah, you know, me movies still makes me cry to this day, you know
20 years old. I was still cry when Mufasa dies and when
Bambi's mother dies. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean getting shot by the hunter
But I mean it kind of teaches you a lesson too that that what happens in real life
And you know in a cartoonish way it teaches lessons, but yeah, I think you'd be hard pressed to
find many parents that would say
Givert of Walt Disney movies, you know, and then if you don't like it, don't freaking watch it
That's my thing. Turn it off. That's what the power buttons work. Change the channel. Don't go to the movie. Back on fox news
Yeah, if you want to bury your head in the sand, you know, mean just change it then, but you didn't you shouldn't have to ruin it for everybody else
But everybody says
They're the those people say that um, they're looking out for the Giver interest of everyone else by
banning these those things that they don't like. I'm just but I don't want those people making decisions in my life
But I think it's funny too because that side of the government is also the side that says they say like
Smaller government those not being a papa yet. They're the ones that are mental on everybody else with freaking business
So, it's the hypocrisy is mind blowing anymore. So, what's anyone going down that room?
Because I can feel my butt pressure rising right now. All right. It looks like we're done. Yeah. Yep. Okay
So, what is your favorite joke right now? I'm reading a book about anti-gravity. You're reading a book about anti-gravity. Okay. It's impossible to put down. Oh god
All right, I thought you didn't read books anymore. Right. It's just a joke. I know. All right. We hope you've enjoyed episode 83 of the Baehr Curadh Podcast. This is Baehr. This is Curadh. Goodbye. Goodbye