Hello from Baehr and Curadh, a podcast from the Land D'Vos Information Services.
I love you, Curadh.
This is episode 117 of the Baehr and Curadh podcast.
We're going to talk about internalized homophobia.
And by the way, if you hear thunder, it's because we're recording in the rain and the power
is out.
So, yeah, we're sitting here in a dark, we're sitting here in a dark, yes.
Okay.
Thank goodness we have a field recorder.
Yeah, that's all we're doing this magic.
So, to everyone listening to this podcast, you have some traits of internalized homophobia
and you don't even know it.
It's pretty interesting, isn't it?
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, so we'll get going on that because it's really interesting.
All right, the first statement says, "We live in a world where everyone is assumed to
be heterosexual, but more than that, we live in a world where heterosexuality is thought
to be superior.
It leads to something called internalized homophobia."
That's a pretty good definition.
Yeah.
I mean, it's not just a definition, it's an explanation as to why it happened.
Yeah.
It's pretty broad, but pretty to the point.
Mm-hmm.
Imagine a Jewish person in Nazi Germany, it's very much like that.
That's pretty eye-opening when you say that.
Not comparing to two, but they're not equal.
No.
I mean, we don't live in fear for our lives all the time.
But it is a situation where society oppresses us, and it's because of something that we
can't control, something that nobody would know.
I mean, I'm sure lots of Jews in Nazi Germany had to hide that they were Jews.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
And try to pass.
It's up to luck, similar for gay people.
Mm-hmm.
Exactly.
It's very interesting.
Yeah.
Can you imagine just trying to hide who you are in your life?
Mm-hmm.
It's just a life.
It's a good thing that we benefit from those who came before us.
Mm-hmm.
Very much so.
Going up and in.
I'm sorry.
Going up and in.
And then going up and in Evangelical Household.
That's a hard word to say.
Evangelical.
Yes.
It's just really hard to say in that order too.
Imagine your little gay boy or lesbian girl and you have feelings and everyone, your family,
your parents, or everyone you know says those people are evil.
Mm-hmm.
They're dirty people.
They're evil.
What they do is disgusting.
You know.
When you hear that, it's such a young age.
Mm-hmm.
I got a little bit of that because I was very Catholic.
Mm-hmm.
But I don't think my parents were really that way.
It was more than nuns in the priests.
That's true.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
That's too bad though.
I mean that anybody should have run to live like that, but sadly it goes all over the
place.
That's what's that.
And it leads to people hating themselves.
Mm-hmm.
So is that right?
Mm-hmm.
So there's some terrible things.
Low self-confidence, feelings of inadequacy, self-minimization, it's got some hard words.
Self-minimization.
Minimization.
Anxiety and depression.
Okay.
Those are all things that happened because of internalized homophobia.
Mm-hmm.
Have you suffered from any of this?
Um, I think the feelings of inadequacy when I was growing up, I probably felt everything
one of those things.
Uh, yeah, I probably did too.
I feel like when I became an adult, I came to terms with a lot of those things.
Mm-hmm.
I feel you've worn.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And I think acknowledging that I'm gay and my activism gave me a crowd that was self-affirming
that I didn't have when I was in Catholic school.
That's good.
That's very good.
Avoiding public dismay displays of affection.
I think we have to do that just for survival, especially in this area, country.
Yeah.
Yeah, I would agree with that.
It's not because I don't want to give you a hug and a kiss in public.
I mean, I think we're, you know, we want to give you a kiss every day when you pick me
up from work, but that's the privacy on our own car.
Mm-hmm.
But I mean, like, holding hands and just, you know, the only time we ever do that is it's
pride events.
Yeah.
Where you've got thousands of people around you.
You're just like you, you know, in its safety and numbers.
Mm-hmm.
So, plus, I hate to say this, but it causes less problems because if, like, so we mean you're
comfortable enough when we're walking around St. Delano and holding hands and some idiots
about.
So, if you've baggots, you know me, I'm not going to just let go suddenly, I'm not going
to let go.
So, I mean, it just, you know, I mean, it's almost like a defense mechanism out to dope because
it just, it saves you heartache and the long run, I think.
Do you know, I mean, is it pretty bad to say that?
And that's the case of internalized homophobia for self-defense.
No.
Like, like, hiding it when you have Christian parents.
Mm-hmm.
No.
Feeling you're not ever good enough.
Yeah.
I mean, all of this stuff really goes back to hiding who you are.
You're not feeling comfortable, you know what I mean?
Of course, it's going to give you no self-esteem, not feeling good enough, but I've felt all
of these in my life as I think you still do.
I still do.
I still have no self-confidence.
I get anxiety quite a bit.
I think my depression is better, but I still get depressed pretty easily.
Not easily anymore, but I guess I feel fortunate that I surrounded myself with defiant people.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
That's kind of true.
Yeah.
Internalized homophobia is what a lot of homophobic hate crimes stem from.
It's sort of a trope now, but I think it's, that's because it's true that a lot of people
who are very, very homophobic and commit hate crimes are afraid that they're gay themselves.
Mm-hmm.
I think a lot of times where there's actions against them, gay people said it is because of that.
They're...
It's often younger men, aggressive men who are afraid to take an internal look at themselves.
Mm-hmm.
You know what I mean?
It doesn't necessarily mean that they are gay, but they're afraid they might be gay.
Exactly.
So they attack and they lash out.
Attempts to change your attraction or engage in addictive behaviors that distract from
queer thoughts and feelings.
Mm-hmm.
To think of how many gay people you know who are alcoholics.
That's right, Joe.
A lot of them.
A lot of them are having heavy drinkers.
And smokers?
Smokers.
Very addicted behaviors.
You're right.
Yep.
Trying to not think about things.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm definitely not one of those people.
I'm a very reflective person.
No, I know.
I think about things a lot.
Yeah.
Too much.
You have to shut your brain off at night.
I think that's why I became a Star Trek fan because, you know, for an hour, I could forget
this terrible world we live in and dream of a better one.
Yeah.
That's gonna be true.
Yeah.
So, I guess it doesn't have to be drugs.
I mean, sports could be not-
Oh yeah.
Any kind of a take-to-be, or the take-you-take-you away from-
Real Army.
What you are, and conversion therapy.
That's a big win here at Kansas.
Big win.
There's- I mean, it's like an industry.
There's like multiple places where-
People send their kids here from all over the country.
Yeah.
That's disgusting.
And I've seen them in the bars.
Yeah.
Wonder what they're-
Hey, I got in the free night.
Out the section.
Hey.
Look at that.
The power came back on.
The power came on.
So, all the fans are gonna come back on to-
That better?
Yeah.
And now we have a kitty that wants to be heard.
Hi, buddy.
Yes, you're a good boy.
Yes, the power is back on.
Thanks for telling me.
You see him running here?
It's on.
It's working, Dad.
You're a good boy.
Okay, that's when it's the show.
Bunny.
It's okay.
Because we're a conversion therapy.
Conversion therapy.
Yeah.
That's a huge market here in Kansas.
I don't know why.
A lot of states have outlawed it.
Oh, okay.
Of course, ours is gonna be one of the last to ever do that.
It's a stupid.
They should outlaw it.
It's- it's a form of psychological torture.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Because they send these people when they're pretty young, but they end up with some adults
that do it, too.
But it's, yeah, it's mostly young people like Pritine, isn't it?
Mm-hmm.
And just torture them.
That's- it's- it's gotta leave some- it's a lasting- it's mental problems that I still,
you know what I mean?
Mm-hmm.
And it's gonna reinforce their internalized homophobia for the rest of their lives.
No matter how hard they- they commit to loving themselves and living them as yourselves.
Mm-hmm.
So, yeah, that's just horrible.
And then imagine your- your own family doing that to you.
The people that you- you're supposed to trust and love the most.
Mm-hmm.
Everything the ones that are saying, "How could you ever trust them again?"
Yeah, I didn't thought about that.
I mean, you can't- I can't- I can't- I can't- That's why people will sort of divorce themselves
from their family.
Yeah, that's true.
It's so sad, though.
In joining a seminary, the armed forces are law enforcement to cure themselves.
Yeah.
That probably happens.
Well, I don't think I-
Especially the seminary.
The seminary, oh yeah.
The God can take this away.
Yeah.
And the next thing you know, they're- yeah.
(laughs)
I don't know.
I've been went down that rabbit hole.
Well, I remember being picked up by a guy in a bar one night and he said, "Let's come
back to my place."
And my place was a church.
Oh really?
Yeah.
Did you send a Catholic priest?
Did you send?
Oh, we send a lot that night.
I bet you did.
That's funny.
And law enforcement, I can see that too, or the military, trying to go into a structured
system.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
You wanted to go into law enforcement.
Mm-hmm.
But then, when it's a time, I would have- I was an out, so I would have been in the closet
for a long time.
Mm-hmm.
So, that's terrible.
Do you think that had anything to do with wanting to go into law enforcement?
I think so, maybe.
Maybe a little bit.
And in fact, your father was too, I guess.
Mm-hmm.
I think more so of that than that, but yeah, I think so.
Overachievement as a bid for acceptance.
I can see that.
See a lot of people would go-
A lot of minorities see this, you know, or like women in the workplace.
They say, "I have to be twice as good to be equal."
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
That's a shame.
And I can see the gay people having the same thoughts.
Yeah.
Seeing them work twice as hard or just going to be the first one to get every project on
stuff like that.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I think that growing up to women and people you kind of knew weren't completely out, but did you
know what I mean?
There was speculation that there might be a gay.
I have some black people that I work with, one in particular, said, "You know, I just have to,
I have to be always on top of things," because I feel like if I'm not, I'll let my people
down.
Oh, wow.
That's a lot of pressure.
Increased fear and withdrawal from friends and relatives.
I think that comes out, comes in the beginning before people come out.
Or do you think that when people are out?
Um, if their family's been particularly cruel to them, I can see them saying, "I've had enough
of you.
I never want to see."
Yeah.
And the other way, there was a bar in town that had a huge, huge dance floor.
It was a country in Western bar.
And every year at Thanksgiving, he had an open Thanksgiving dinner.
People could have sort of a potluck.
He would supply turkey and dress.
There's a dress.
No, no.
It was bow.
Okay.
And every year, it was open to people who weren't welcomed by their family.
That's sweet.
That's real sweet.
It's kind of like a miniature one that we used to do.
Me and my few of my friends used to open the bar before I met you.
Remember?
Well, I think I did go to one of those, because none of us had family in town, really.
So we would do our Thanksgiving dinner up at the bar, because the bar was open and we'd
get there early.
We were all drinking the night before, because when's it before Thanksgiving, there's always
a big, big night to go out.
Well, yeah.
And stay away from your family.
Stay away from your family.
Then when you had no family in town, you'd get set of just nursing anger over by yourself.
You went to the bar.
You dipped it all.
You dipped you.
So embarrassment about those you attracted to or how it manifested.
Can you think of an example of this?
Because I definitely can't.
You've got to be attracted to.
Really?
You.
This is a problem you have.
What do you mean?
You will not go to a locker room, because you're afraid you'll see somebody get a hard
on.
Yeah.
You're right.
You don't get worried about going to a naked locker room and seeing something naked.
I've done it so many times, but our bare group used to have water aerobics once a week.
But you've never got any aroused by being naked in a clubhouse?
Probably.
I definitely remember one time one guy did.
I mean, he was getting a pretty good job, probably because I was staring at him.
I don't know.
Yeah.
I was, yeah, probably was.
Staring?
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
So yeah.
I want to be able to do it.
Yeah.
Because even when you were doing rowing, you wouldn't shower with the...
No one never showered.
No one really ever went to a locker room to showeredies, wait until you got back your room
and showered.
And so, yeah.
We never had a clubhouse to go shower and it was always at the gym.
But it's always...it's as much...it's just easier also to get back to your room and shower
and then start your day, so you always have plenty of time to do it, so.
Hmm.
But you just never thought about that being internalized tomophobia.
No, never.
But it makes the police sense.
So, I think everybody who listens to this will probably find at least one example for
themselves.
Hmm.
Feelings of shame and guilt.
Damn.
Well, because you're thinking what you're doing is wrong.
When I ran the game formation, I counseled a lot of people and they would have next morning
guilt.
Hmm.
Yeah.
I mean, after you first mess around, did you feel guilty the next morning or shame?
No, I don't think I did.
Almost universally, everyone thinks believes that their first sexual experience was just awful,
just a horrible experience that wasn't the case with me.
Okay.
Well, you're lucky.
The guy who was at a Star Trek convention, the guy was really nice, explained things, didn't
rush.
Hmm.
So, no, I barely had guilt under sex.
Well, even when I was acting straight, I'd still had shame and guilt.
Because it's something even social norms tell you, you shouldn't be doing this unless you're
married.
Hmm.
So, you know what I mean?
And then it's also in mind with a sham too, it was like I'm sleeping with these girls.
I mean, I knew that I was attracted to men.
Hmm.
So, then I feel guilty about that.
And then when I did it with a man, I felt I shouldn't be doing this as a wrong society
tells me this is wrong.
So, society is set everyone up for failure.
Failure.
Yeah.
So, even heterosexuals.
Hmm.
I don't think they have as hard as we do, but I mean, but if mine also is like a bad joke,
a conquest too.
Like, look what I did.
I mean, I'm a big man.
I slept with this chick last night.
I'm stupid.
But then, you know, you're trying to act tough and big and bad and acting like a man.
And then, you know, everyone, unless you're completely social path, you're ready to
talk about the other path.
You know, are they okay?
Or at least I did.
I was worried about the girl.
Social disease.
Hmm.
Getting somebody pregnant.
That.
That's something we've never had to worry about.
Getting STDs.
Mm-hmm.
Get worried about that.
So, yeah, I mean, I guess you come down to anything you do in life.
You could be, you could be, or charge it internally.
Yeah.
You could be changed for.
Yeah.
No, buddy.
Yeah.
I know.
Um, we do that a lot.
Well, yeah.
Well, I mean.
You don't want to act too nelly.
Mm-hmm.
People might.
Might make fun of you.
Yeah.
I don't think we have very family attributes.
Well, we just don't start with.
Yeah.
I don't think we have very family attributes.
Well, we just don't start with.
Yeah.
I don't think we have very family attributes.
Well, we just don't start with.
Yeah.
I don't think we have very family attributes.
Well, we just don't start with.
Yeah.
I don't think we have very family attributes.
Well, we just don't start with.
Yeah.
Um, I don't think I would ever paint my nails.
No, I don't.
That's not something I would want to do anyway.
Either jam.
If right now, if I painted them, it would be just to be that guy.
But I have, yeah.
I have no need.
What's wrong with you?
Stop it.
It's not about you.
No.
They carry your cat.
He's training you well every time.
Every time he nails you, you look at him.
Hey.
Go.
So you kick him.
We're.
Uh, contempt for the more obvious.
Or open members of the LGBT community.
Yeah, I can see it's more internal hate.
Um, I see the Baehrers do this a lot.
They really make fun of the Nelly guys.
Mom, that's kind of weird because most of them most of the Baehrer community start because of me.
Nelly Twinkie guys.
Because they were shunned by them.
Not that I know of.
I thought that that was the case.
And Baehrs got together.
It was more of, okay.
Well, Baehrs got together because in.
Um, the.
The gay ideal was the tone fit in.
Airless twinks.
And there were guys who liked the manly men.
And, um, that they decided to get together and organize.
And that's how the Baehrs started.
Yeah.
But I do see them sometimes making fun of.
No, no, you're.
Yeah.
Twinkie guys.
Yeah.
It's all crap.
It's all garbage.
I think you're mean.
I know.
I think we all need.
I mean, we're not all going to get along.
It doesn't matter if we're all gay, we're all.
People just aren't.
Me that way.
Not everybody's going to get along.
It doesn't matter if you're all gay, if you're all straight.
If you all like the same sports team, you're not going to get along with everybody that's.
And I don't recall a lot of it doing it in front of people.
It was obvious.
It was usually a.
Like a more behavior.
And after a thought thing, you know, talking, telling stories about.
But not really making fun of people right in front of them.
Yeah.
But that's what, if you get enough people together, that's what I eventually need to.
Yeah.
The group think.
Yeah.
It's a mob mentality.
Yeah.
So.
Yeah.
I'm wearing some of the opposite sex, hoping the heterosexual families will be replaced.
I'm in so many times.
Oh, yeah.
I know people who are products of those marriages.
I probably wouldn't went down that same path if I got into the police force.
What?
Well, one of my best gay friends and I were the only two that really survived the AIDS pandemic.
He died a few years ago.
I want to say a brain hemorrhage, something like that.
He was in poor health for quite a while, that wasn't he?
Yeah, he was.
And he probably, he was overweight.
He probably had a bit of shame.
We first met because he called the gay information line, and I talked to him.
I mean, he was still married then.
We didn't get together or we didn't become friends because of that.
Eventually, I started a beer club and he joined.
And he told me that there was one night that he called and he was glad that I was there.
And we were friends from then on.
Yeah, he knew him for quite a while.
So shame.
He was the last of the friends that I have.
Yeah, and he died a few four or five years ago.
Gosh, it doesn't seem like it.
I'm sorry.
Mis-trust and destructive criticism of queer community leaders.
Yeah, back to the same self-hate.
I just see that, but sometimes it's justified too.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
You gotta be aware of who and what's around you.
I think it becomes bad when it becomes you just trust and hate everybody though.
Yeah.
We try to present a united front, but gay people often don't get along.
That movie bros where he belongs to the gay community council or whatever and how they had all the infighting.
Yeah.
That's exactly the way it is.
Especially gay men and lesbians, do not.
You see, I don't very well.
No, not at all.
You can see that when you get to the bars.
When you have a group of people who, the only thing they have in common, I mean, they're not industry pals, you know, they're not all lawyers or plumbers or whatever.
The only thing they have in common is their sexual orientation.
You're gonna have a lot of that.
Yeah.
The opposite, giving a past to queer people just because they're queer.
I see that happening.
Yeah, you go, "Well, you know, he means well."
I keep in passive work because I feel bad for more so.
Especially if they come in looking for a couple of business people come in and if I notice they're allies or something like that, I'm generally gonna give them more money.
I didn't never thought about that.
Yeah, which is not right.
I shouldn't do that, but I'm like...
So when you go into a pawn shop, be sure I'm wearing your rainbow bracelet.
You're gonna mind if you let me talk to you.
Exactly.
Going in front of me, you're gonna get more money.
But I think that's...
When you know, it's...
If you feel like, "Okay, that's someone on my team."
So I'm gonna give them a buy or a pass or, you know what I mean?
Is that really internalized homophobia?
I don't know that it is.
I don't know if that it is. I mean, it could be. It's intruded as it is.
I mean, you know, you wouldn't do it for anybody else.
Yeah.
So, I do remember somebody in the Baehrs group complaining about his lot in life.
And somebody else says, "Don't blame everything on being gay."
Sometimes it's just because you're a horrible person.
True. You're gonna just be a bad-freaking person.
And that's why it happens to you.
I think it seems to think that if you're the worst decision you make,
people just aren't born with bad luck.
It's a lot of the time. It's the choice that you make in your personal life.
Turn into bad things because you're making poor choices.
And some people just never get the wisdom. They just never grow up.
No.
And so bad things happen to them.
But I mean, if you're walking around on the edge of a cliff,
sooner or later, you're gonna fall with that cliff.
So, all right, contend for those at earlier stages of the coming out process.
I can see this, but I can't think of any examples.
I can see it, but I can't think of any example either.
Um, movies they'd be jealous of.
Well, I do remember a couple of times somebody saying that kid is gay
and he doesn't even know it yet.
That's scary.
That's a scary time for a kid like that though.
Yeah, I mean, why would you have contempt towards him for that?
But anything you should be up in the long run.
Yeah, I would think so.
Yeah, you would want to.
There's like the guy that I first had sex with.
He said there is a long chain of people.
Um, you're expected to mentor those to come after you.
And, um, I think that was really good advice.
Did you sleep with a stod or something?
Or was it one night's screw?
Yeah, it was just a guy that I met at a convention.
Seems like he was often willing to pass along with them.
Yeah.
That's good.
I was extremely lucky.
Yeah, we were lucky.
Projection of prejudices on to another target group.
So you hate another group?
I can see that.
Yeah.
I don't think that I consciously do that, but probably do.
I don't.
I think everybody does at a certain level, no matter what.
Hm.
Like jokes like at least I'm out of lesbian.
Yeah, or those, those black people, or those Mexicans, or those Asians, you know what I mean?
Um, when you're, you're identifying completely separate from another group.
You mean, and so those comments are on, it's, you know, it could be my new, but it's still.
I guess every time you enforce a reinforce a stereotype, that's what you do.
That's what you do.
So, reluctance to be around children for fear of being seen as a pedophile.
I can see that happening so many times.
For you, me, everybody, every gay person I know.
Yeah.
You don't want to pick a kid up.
You know what I mean?
Or, yeah, just, no, don't leave me alone with him.
Because you don't want people to just think anything of it.
So if you're a gay person, you think you have no internalized hope if I'll be, uh, think about that.
Think about that.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
This, this whole, uh, episode's going to blow people's minds, I think.
Yeah.
Becoming psychologically abused or remaining in an abusive relationship.
Guilty.
Yeah.
I'm going through it right now.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, you went through a really rough one with this.
Um, physically abused.
I have daily reminders of it.
Mm-hmm.
I think my life's relationship was psychologically abusive.
Possibly.
But, so, I put up with it for years.
Mm-hmm.
But it's just like you put up with me.
Yeah, you don't abuse me, though.
Putting down or avoiding heterosexuals.
Yeah.
I see this.
Yeah.
Stop.
Sorry.
Putting down or avoiding heterosexuals.
Oh, yeah.
Especially the avoiding heterosexuals.
Mm-hmm.
I think I'm kind of guilty of that.
Other than the people I work with, I don't know any heterosexuals.
You know, the people I know.
But I don't socialize with them.
No.
I mean, that's by your own choice.
I mean, I've tried to get you to socialize with them.
I mean, you choose not to do anything with them.
I mean, feelings superior to heterosexuals.
I see that happen a lot.
Yeah.
In fact, some heterosexuals sort of look for that.
They go, "You couldn't possibly be gay because you don't dress well enough."
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And, to be honest, gayes can be mean.
We can be very, very mean.
Even to each other.
I mean, more mean than, I think, straight people.
I mean, very...
Fort Tom.
The catty is kind of a stereotype.
It's true.
And it's almost like they wear like a badge of honor.
The picture and the meaner they can be, the prouder they are.
And so, I'm not saying anything.
And the most successful drag queens are extremely catty.
Yeah.
Well, you can get the most coke in their body at one time.
So, sorry.
All right.
So, thinking about or attempting suicide.
I've seen a lot of that myself.
Mm-hmm.
I haven't seen a lot of it, but I've heard about it.
So, do you know people who have committed suicide because of it?
No, but I've talked to a lot of people who were concerned.
I think one of my friends did commit suicide because of it.
I don't think I ever told you about him jumping out of the eatin' hotel.
He had a really bad coke problem, but I think he was...
He was, he had a crush on me and Eric.
Pretty bad.
And, uh...
But he...
It's finding out through friends of friends and three things,
other things that he...
He didn't...
He was ex-military.
He didn't know how to deal with it.
And possibly suffered from addiction to distract from it.
Oh, yeah.
And he was...
And both his parents had stepped on his stepdad.
We're both in law enforcement.
We had his funeral pretty much as well friends were chastised
for being the way we were.
We were the reason he died.
All that stuff.
But yeah, he decided to jump out of the fourth floor of the eatin', took a header.
'Cause if you jump normally, he would've lived.
He would've been broke his legs when he decided to go ahead first.
And he was with another friend of mine and he'd dare mess around with two young ladies.
And, uh...
Him and Joe and the two young ladies went into another room.
And there were four disceiling windows.
And he was left out there by himself in the living room.
And next thing I wanted to call the one I was looking for him in.
He was...
He just...
They said he either fell or he jumped.
But I'd think he jumped.
But yeah, 'cause when they found one Joe finally got to him, he was still breathing.
But his head was...
Opened like a walnut.
But yeah, that was an interesting funeral because his mom and stepdad pretty much chastised.
They did the whole Catholic funeral.
But when we were all sinners and tried to get us to come to the clergy or whatever, find God.
But it basically came out.
It came across as basically a tongue lashing.
So...
The Jews may have invented guilt, but the Catholics perfected it.
Yeah, exactly.
A general sense of personal worth and also a positive deal of your sexual orientation.
It's critical for your mental health.
So true.
Yeah.
If you...
If you feel bad about yourself, get help.
Mental health is just like physical health.
Yeah.
You know, if you had a booboo on your knee, you'd go to the doctor.
You have a booboo in your head.
You should go to the doctor.
Exactly.
You happen to don't think anything less of yourself just go and do it.
Because you're important.
Just being aware of internalized homophobia is a good thing.
I think it's a very good thing.
Just something not to worry about and just about, but to keep in the back of your mind.
And like I said, I'm sure lots of people have discovered a little bit of internalized homophobia just by listening to this.
Probably.
They never even thought of before.
All right.
So that's it for this week.
Yes.
Cool.
So I guess that your favorite time of the week?
What's your joke for the week?
My joke for the week.
How does Lady Gaga like her sushi?
Ma-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra.
Okay.
I'm proud of myself.
We got another one.
That joke makes me so happy.
That joke makes you so happy?
You're so happy.
We hope you liked episode 117 of the Baehr and Kerra Podcast.
This is Baehr.
This is Kerra.
Goodbye.
You have been listening to the Baehr and Kerra Podcast.
A production of the Land of Awes Information Services.
We can be contacted via email using the address podcast@awes.com
And Awes is spelled A-W-E-S.
This show is part of the Pride 48 Network.
Find all the best shows under the rainbow at Pride48.com.
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